アグネス・チャン
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Active Agnes
Elwood: We’re here with Agnes Chan. Agnes, it’s a great pleasure to meet you.
Chan: Nice to meet you.
Elwood: Thank you. Now, first of all, can you tell us about growing up in Hong Kong and the start of your career there?
Chan: Well, I was in Hong Kong and I had three brothers, two sisters. When I was around 14 years old while I was singing in some charity concerts in my school, and a producer came and said, “Do you want to sing professionally?” I was very flattered. I said, “Sure!” and that’s how it all started.
Elwood: And what brought you to Japan?
Chan: Well, after several years in Hong Kong, I was very lucky. My career was pretty successful and I had my own programs and I appeared in movies and stuff, and a producer and a songwriter from Japan came over to Hong Kong and he just found me. It’s just like that, and then he came back and he talked with the record company. They came over to Hong Kong and they said, “When your contracts are finished please come to Japan and sing for us.” I was very flattered and I said, “Sure!” and that’s how it all started.
Elwood: And at that time you did not know Japanese, is that right?
Chan: No, not a single word.
Elwood: So how did you learn Japanese after that?
Chan: Well, actually, I came over here. It started from the ride back from the airport. I was in the taxi and the record company manager told me, “You must learn this phrase. As long as you learn this phrase, you will not die.” That’s exactly the words he said, and the first phrase that I learned in Japanese was “Watakushi onaka ga sukimashita,” which is “I’m hungry.”
Elwood: Yes, very useful.
Chan: Yes. That’s how I started. And after I went to, entered the university, Jochi University, I learned Japanese in the school.
Elwood: I see. So you began really from the day-to-day kind of things rather than first learning the Japanese songs.
Chan: Well, when I received the songs I didn’t know a word of Japanese. So it’s all romaji and they have the meaning written down underneath the romaji. That’s how I learned the songs. After I came to Japan I had this little notebook that I keep to myself. When somebody said something I wrote it down and I asked, “What does that mean?” And then sometimes I would try it out when I’m in the same situation. And that’s how I learned. It took me about a year before I sort of understood what people were talking.
Elwood: Was that very overwhelming as a professional singer in a completely different language environment?
Chan: It was, because it’s so difficult to get feedback. Like after you sing one take and you want to know if you have done a good job, but everybody is discussing in Japanese. So you felt that, you know, there must be something wrong with me if they’re talking for so long, but you don’t know the content. And when the interpreter tells me about what they thought, it was like two words or three words, and they have been talking for about 30 minutes. I want to know about the other 25 minutes, you know. It was very difficult. It gave me a lot of stress, not understanding the language, but it also gave me the initiative to really learn hard so I can understand what everybody is talking about. I felt very lonely in the beginning, though.
Elwood: In addition to being a terrific singer you’ve also written some of your songs. Can you tell me about the song-writing process?
Chan: Well, I don’t write a lot of songs. The only time when I write songs is when I really have something that I want to express and I cannot express and I cannot explain it well enough so that somebody can write it for me. Then I have to do it myself.
For example, some of the songs that I’ve written are after I went to Africa. I came back and I just had to express myself some way, so I wrote a song. For example, I went to Cambodia and I saw all the boat people and I had to express myself some way and so I wrote a song. It’s usually when I have some experience that I cannot express myself in words that I try to write a song.
Elwood: I see. Now, what about the difference between singing in English, Chinese and Japanese? Do you feel different or does the rhythm affect the way you sing?
Chan: It’s very different, actually. Since Cantonese is my mother tongue, I like to sing in Cantonese. The meaning comes through most transparently, like it comes straightforward to my heart. I like English because it’s a very beautiful language when it’s being used on melodies and it rhymes and it sounds very good and it’s nice with a good beat and also very nice with the ballads.
Japanese is a very difficult language to sing, I think, and it’s the most challenging one for me. But I like to sing in all three languages, but if I can choose one language maybe I’ll choose Cantonese because I just feel so at home with the language.
Elwood: In the middle of your amazing career what made you decide to go to Stanford?
Chan: Well, first of all, because Stanford is like a dream, you know. I’ve always wanted to go abroad to America to study. During my undergraduate years I was in Canada and I’ve always wanted to go either to Stanford or Harvard, and when the chance came and I got accepted to their doctorate degree program I was very overwhelmed. I really wanted to go. But I was pregnant, and I had this whole career here laid out so it took a bit to arrange and to tell people and persuade them to support me. But they were very understanding, including my husband, so I got my way and I went to Stanford.
Elwood: You’ve lived and studied in Hong Kong, Japan, Canada and the U.S. Educationally and in your personal life was there anything that surprised you in these experiences?
Chan: Well, Hong Kong is a very small place and we have only one English university and everybody wants to get into that Hong Kong University, and so the competitiveness is very similar to Japan.
But what I found out when I came to Japan is they stress a lot on conforming, you know, like to do the right thing, and the right thing is very well defined. That was pretty difficult for me because, you know, I’ve been under the American system or the British system which always said, “You think for yourself. What is right you think for yourself. Why do you think it’s right? Why do you think it’s wrong?” all the time. But in Japan the lines are so clear. It’s very difficult for me, it’s like the Japanese word kyukutsu. It’s like I would feel very constrained.
Chan: I remember when I tried to enter Stanford my professor asked me, “Why do you want to come to Stanford? What do you have to offer?” I was so used to asking the school, “What are you offering me?” I thought schools were supposed to be there and teach me, but she asked me, “What do you have to offer? Why should we take you in?” It was a completely different angle. I said, “Can I answer you tomorrow?” I went back to the hotel and thought for a whole night and then I wrote her a letter.
And, yes, I think that’s a very, very new way of approach to education. You enter a school, of course, you receive an education but, at the same time, you’re in the process of adding to the knowledge of mankind, and because you entered the school you make a difference. That was very refreshing. I liked that.
Elwood: You are a teacher of cross-cultural communication, and in your own life you are a living example of that. What do you think is the key ingredient in effective communication between different cultures?
Chan: I think a lot of people said it’s understanding and mutual respect, and I also think a lot of goodwill is important, too. Like you do believe that people are nice and you do believe that I can be nice to people. I want to know them, I want them to know me. I think these kinds of feelings are very important and, of course, you have to understand, try to understand people, stand in their shoes and try to respect them no matter how different they are from you. But, basically, it’s this feeling of you wanting to be understood and you want to understand and you want to like this person and you believe that this person wants to know you and like you. Sometimes it doesn’t work out, but I think this is one of the most important ingredients to keep you going on and to keep your curiosity and your goodwill coming out from you.
Elwood: That’s a very interesting point. And can you share some of your experiences as a volunteer in Africa and Cambodia, as you mentioned?
Chan: I started, in Hong Kong we say “charity work” and “voluntary work,” when I was about twelve years old. In the beginning it was like visiting orphanages and hospitals, but when I became a grownup I started what they called like “international activities,” and the first country that I visited was Africa. It was at the time when Ethiopia was the focus, and people were talking about the starvation and the civil war.
I still remember very vividly the scenes that appeared before me when I reached Ethiopia - starving children, bodies of animals and people, and large camps with a lot of sick people. It taught me a very, very important lesson because the first day when I reached there I was so afraid. The refugees would come running to you and the army would use these whips to get them away. The first time when we stopped the car everybody rushed to the car and started pushing the car asking for help. The army said, “We just can’t open the windows, we can’t go down and we just have to go on.” So we started the car again and when I looked at the windows, the outside, the glass was full of blood and mud and dirt and everything because of the infection of the people, and I was really afraid. The first time when I got down from the car and the children were running towards me and some of my workers, we started running away. We were so afraid. And then the children just stopped and looked at us.
Well, at that moment I really hated myself. I mean, why did you come to this country if you’re so afraid and you can’t even hold or kiss the children? I mean this is why you came, you know.
After I reached the camp I made a song. I used London Bridge Is Falling Down, I used that melody and I put some of the African words in there, and it’s like “How are you? I’m your friend.” And then I sang that song to the children and they started dancing for me. At that time I was so moved because these children are so skinny. Their thighs would be like three or four of my fingers. They started dancing and welcoming me and showing me that I want to be your friend. I just thought, “Ah! What the heck! If I die here, if I got sick here, that’s my destiny.” That was really the first time that I really opened my heart. I said, “Ah, I don’t care! Even if I die with these children I mean it’s worth it and I’d hold them and I’d kiss them,” and we really became friends.
They taught me a very big lesson. It’s like finally I got free of all my fears, afraid to get sick, afraid to die, and it’s because of the loveliness of the children. They taught me what life really is, and I’ll never, never forget that experience, and from that time on I just think it’s the most natural thing to help people. It’s the most natural thing to share what you have with other people.
And so after that I went to a lot of countries like Cambodia, Vietnam, Nepal, Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, China.
Elwood: I see. And what is your next plan in your life?
Chan: Well, I’m pretty busy at this stage because I have a young baby, about three and a half months old, and also because this year is 1997 and there is lots of events leading up to the changing of flags of Hong Kong from British to China, and I would probably be joining many of the events.
And because this is my 25th anniversary in Japan as a singer, so I’m planning to put out a CD, too, with some of my Chinese songs. That’s exciting for me because I’ve never sung in Chinese in Japan. And also I’m writing a lot of books, and one of them is already published. It’s about bullying in Japan, and that’s what I want to take a stand as a person this year, to talk about bullying in other countries and what kind of remedies can be made.
That’s about it and I’ll continue my usual work like TV, radio and talks, giving talks, and teaching in universities and doing concerts. That’s basically what I’ll do this year.
Elwood: A lot of stuff. Well, Agnes, I look forward to reading your book on bullying, and thank you very much for talking with me today.
Chan: Thanks a lot. Thank you.
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